By Steve KrakauerFor this week’s “BCC” interview, I emailed with founder, CEO and editor of TheWrap, Sharon Waxman. Waxman founded TheWrap in 2009 after years as a journalist at the New York Times and the Washington Post.
Below is the full email exchange between myself and Waxman – where we disagree on coronavirus media coverage, but talk about a variety of issues. Click here for my “BCC Interview” with Fox News’ Greg Gutfeld, or here for my “BCC Interview” with the New York Times’ Ben Smith. And click here to subscribe to the Fourth Watch newsletter.
From: Steve Krakauer
To: Sharon Waxman
Hey Sharon-
Hope you’re doing well in this crazy time, and thanks for doing this.
I wanted to start with the coronavirus crisis. I still believe, like I did when you and I shared a moment of agreement on Twitter about a month ago, that much of the media coverage has not been nearly nuanced enough, from both sides. There is not a serious discussion – or even debate – about the cost/benefit analysis of stay at home orders, or discussing HOW to open back strategically. What do you think of the media coverage, overall? Have there been specific parts you think are working well or struggling mightily?
On a separate point, I wanted to talk journalism in 2020. You started TheWrap in 2009, and have built it in a true media force. What is different about the landscape in 2020? And, I know you started a bit of a Twitter firestorm recently with your comments about the LA Times’ coronavirus paywall plea. How do you think the media will have to adjust to this post-coronavirus world, from a financial and editorial perspective?
Feel free to throw any questions my way…
Thanks
Steve
From: Sharon Waxman
To: Steve Krakauer
I do think there’s a persistent groupthink here as regards the virus and probably one big contributing factor is the obvious the (pauses, thinks, runs out of powerful enough hyperbole) chaos vortex at the White House, led by President Do Whatever I Want. It’s currently not acceptable to even think about balancing the risk to life and limb posed by the virus and the deep risk to our entire economy and indeed the global economy. Is there is a threshold of acceptable losses due to the virus? I don’t know, but I do know that there is no discourse that would permit that without veering into accusations of wanting to euthanize old people. And now with 40,000 dead we’ve moved past even having this argument, the body count is horrific. I come at this slightly differently. I’m not only a reporter and editor, I’m also business owner who supports 50 individuals – mostly journalists – at TheWrap. Finding a business model for professional journalism was the point of starting the whole thing. I confess, the day that Gavin Newsom shut down the state I felt a rush of anger, part of it a sharp concern that the work I’ve done for a decade, what we’ve built here, is at risk because of factors far beyond our control. My own anger is deep toward the administration. At the same time, I want to see California behaving like the state it is, with the 29th lowest deaths per capita. I have been holding Newsom’s feet to the fire to justify his moves, give us more information and get testing in place so we can move on from mass quarantine. I feel like my anti-authoritarian streak has been triggered by this thing.
Yes, happy to address this. I was disappointed though not surprised to be attacked on Twitter for pointing out a legit crappy user experience on the L.A. Times. The legacy media and those who believe journalism is important need to wake up. We don’t save journalism by guilt or Twitter-shaming or defending a crappy product. We save it by creating a product that readers embrace and love and cannot live without. We lose our democracy without journalism, and we lose journalism when right-thinking people act like we have some entitlement to be here. TheWrap works because it’s lean and scrappy and digital, and because we make it our daily mission to be essential to our readers. We also tell our readers that that’s our mission. When I started TheWrap I had a sticky note: “Be Essential” stuck to my monitor for the first couple of years. Now that we have a new subscription product – it’s called Wrap PRO and meant for industry professionals – I have revived this constant reminder and evangelize it internally all the time. (My staff probably sick of hearing this.) I believe L.A. vitally needs more media outlets, and that the L.A. Times needs to improve its external messaging about its mission and brand. Not throw up a zillion pop-ups hectoring me to subscribe. We all have to earn it, every day.
From: Steve Krakauer
To: Sharon Waxman
Sharon-
I think that point about being essential is so important now in the media – I’m always looking for a media outlet, or a media platform, that can provide a unique value to an audience. I wonder if something positive that may come out of this crisis is a newfound appreciation for honest, reliable journalism. There’s such a craving for information right now – such a value on truth, without the spin. Are there any outlets or individuals that are standing out to you right now? Any platforms or media formats you think will thrive when we come out of this crisis?
Something else I wanted to talk to you about is another storyline that has come out of the Trump Era, which is the #MeToo movement. I think the biggest previously-perceived-as-unmovable domino to fall has been Harvey Weinstein, who you’ve written about very poignantly based on your experience at the New York Times. What do you think the fact that Weinstein was brought down says about the current power structure, and the media’s appetite to knock it all down? And I have to ask, relatedly – what do you think of the coverage of Biden’s sexual assault allegations during this election year?
Steve
From: Sharon Waxman
To: Steve Krakauer
I’m worried about the uninformed nature of our electorate, and this is getting worse. The demise of local news coverage has accelerated, tragically, with direct consequences to public health. The damage by the misinformation spread by Fox News is calculable by the studies showing the correlation between those who believe the pandemic is not so serious and those who watch Fox. This is bad enough to be triggering lawsuits.
I think Chris Cuomo’s anchoring of the news while battling Covid was noteworthy in its bravery, and in offering a real-life, real-time example of what the experience of getting Covid-19 is like. I did not at all understand Laura Ingraham criticizing Cuomo for making himself the story. That’s absurd. This was the opposite – using himself as a teachable moment to his viewers, despite the pain and suffering he was going through. That’s grit and will certainly stand out as one of the notable moments in media that is remembered.
I don’t have a lot to say on Weinstein here that I haven’t already said. I’m not at all sure about your premise that the media has an appetite “to know it all down.” That’s not my experience. And re Biden, I don’t have enough knowledge to weigh in.
From: Steve Krakauer
To: Sharon Waxman
Hey Sharon-
Clearly Fox missed the story early on, but didn’t the rest of the media too? I watched CNN on Super Tuesday as I usually do on election days, and they and the rest of the media were not talking about the danger to the 5 million+ voters who went out and voted that day. Isn’t the truth that no one in the media – or in politics, really – took it seriously enough early on?
Let me jump to a totally different story about the media. I think you and TheWrap were early in recognizing the way the media was shifting, the opportunity there was for a site like TheWrap. Where do you think we’re headed – what do you think of podcasts, newsletters? Do you think we’re reaching a digital media tipping point – as we’ve seen with BuzzFeed and Vice losing their valuation?
Thanks for doing this Sharon, I always appreciate your take on the media.
From: Sharon Waxman
To: Steve Krakauer
Let’s not play the false equivalence game. Fox News was parroting the White House line, as it always does, for weeks, energetically downplaying the virus, making fun of people who were raising warnings. That is, until the numbers started to spike, the bodies started to pile up and the federal government finally changed its tone. That’s nothing new – following the White House script is the Fox News playbook. But in this case it had deadly consequences. The moral weight of adopting this role, meaning a news organization behaving as the mouthpiece for the government instead of acting as an independent observer holding government accountable, is particularly serious here. The Murdochs bear a grave responsibility that I hope will weigh on them heavily.
TheWrap seized an opportunity at a fairly unique moment, though it was a counterintuitive one – we launched at the peak of the Great Recession in early 2009. My belief at the time was that print was dying and digital would replace it, and we needed to get in the game. It’s turned out to be much more complicated than that. The business models for media – especially for local news media – have disintegrated. Print continues to die out, but the business model for digital outlets like TheWrap is still not robust. It’s still a struggle. Nobody is making real money except for Facebook and Google. I have discussed this with both Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg – we in the media should not want philanthropic handouts from Facebook and Twitter. What we need is recognition that our content brings value to their platforms, and to be cut in on the proceeds. That said, at TheWrap we are pivoting away from an advertising focus to a subscriber-based model which is better in every single way. Except that that takes time to scale.